I had the opportunity to be tortured once a year whether I wanted it or not. Each year we ran a SERE course and if you got captured you were tortured by your peers. Every year the torturers were changed out just to keep things fresh.

THE WORST torture I EVER witnessed was as a Lifeguard at Lee Field House on Ft. Bragg. There I witnessed but was not allowed to interfere with Special Forces Pre-Scuba training. I can guarantee you it was FAR more torturous than Water Boarding.

When dealing with bullies, they don’t understand “nice.” You either speak their language or get off the playground when you see them coming.

Sadly, our “torture” techniques are still on the “nice” side compared to what terrorists are used to inflicting. In fact, I wonder if they actually laugh at us once their session is over because they know there’s much worse, but can count on Americans having a conscience to not cross the line of humanity.

My deep and abiding respect goes to any SERE graduate for having the guts and brains to make it through the stringent course. My heart and prayers are for our soldiers overseas. My son among them.

Obama may weaken our country, but may our soldiers keep us strong.

“I am certain that I would have let them kill me before I would quit.”

How are you so certain? There is absolutely no circumstance under which they would have let you die, and we all know how useless claims like “I would have let them kill me” are outside of real life circumstances.

Meanwhile:
“At least 108 people have died in American custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, most of them violently, according to government data provided to The Associated Press. Roughly a quarter of those deaths have been investigated as possible abuse by U.S. personnel.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/16/terror/main680658.shtml

I think you need to rethink your stance on this.

We got a link on this post from the National Review Corner. Ramesh Ponnuru linked back. Thanks Ramesh and welcome Corner readers.

The CIA memos released by the Obama administration this week confirm that the techniques used on KSM and others came out of the U.S. Military’s SERE training programs.

The memos also state that the SERE training program produced years’ worth of data about how individuals react, physically and mentally, to various interrogation methods. This data was used to perfect the techniques used on al Qaeda prisoners.

I know people like you want desperately to believe that was was done to KSM was far worse than what was done to me, but the evidence does not support your claims. You will have to look elsewhere to find excuses to denounce and demonize those who did what was necessary to protect the lives of American citizens.

“The data on SERE cannot possibly replicate the experience of receiving this treatment from someone you have no reason to trust.”

Physically, there is no difference. I acknowledge in my post above, however, that it is certainly psychologically harder on terrorists than on SERE trainees. I don’t think that can be disputed. Should we care if KSM and his ilk get stressed out more than SERE students? I know I don’t.

“then you were done wrong, and that shouldn’t have been done to you, either.”

Please. Intense training made me stronger and more confident in myself than any other experience in my life. I can say unequivocally that SERE training – including the instructor’s course – was the most intense training I have undergone and the most life enhancing. I wouldn’t trade it for the world.

Sandy –

The context of your “what if” questioning creates perhpas the two most dangerous words in the English language.

“What if” is used as a blanket defense, supporting a postion of taking no action. Ever. Because, afterall, “what if…”

What if the guy being interrogated does have information about a dirty bomb in a Mariott? We should order him room service and engage in “smart diplomacy” instead, right?

BOOM….and pass the ketchup.

This is the difference between understanding how the world “should” work, and how it actually does work. Milt Bearden understands how the world works; you do not.

It just floors me that you bask in relative safety everyday, knowing there are REALLY bad people out there who would love nothing more than to blow you and your loved ones to kingdom come, and yet become ‘squeamish’ about how that safety is provided.

Your principles are noteworthy, but probably not that relevant at the end of the day. Do you want the acid test? Do you have the courage of your convictions? Then truthfully answer this:

Your father / mother / brother / sister / husband / children are in that Mariott you mention and you have no way to reacch them. Intelligence professionals have reason to beleive the guy in the next room has information that could keep a bomb from exploding. You have about an hour before it is believed the bomb will go off.

What do you do?

J MG:

Bypass our intellect? Act on emotions? I’m not suggesting either.

I am suggesting utilizing tactics that WORK as that seems to be the intellectually prudent thing to do.

My hypothetical was merely an example of that in an over-simplified scenario: If in that situation, you would want to employ a method or tactic that had the best possible chance of success. Period.

Locking these people up and ‘hoping’ they will just spill their guts someday is actually more ‘emotional’ than intellectual. It’s emotional in that it’s a “feel-good” position; we can bask in our moral superiority knowing we’re ‘taking some kind of action’ but stopping short of being “harsh.”

We will play by a set of rules that the other side refuses to play by. See how enlightened we are?

See how stupid we are.

I don’t think you really got the point on the “what if”. I was using the term in trying to make the point that what they go through at SERE and what people in our custody go through are “not” the same. While the techniques being used might be the same whats going on in the individuals minds are not. “What if” wasn’t being used as a reason to “take or not take action”. Which is a complete and utter strawman by the way even Bush’s FBI director Mueller admits that no worthwhile evidence came of from the torture. Abu Zubaydah gave up all of his credible information “before” he was tortured. Which takes me back to again the point that its not the same for the SERE soldiers. R.D.’s point that “They can choose to start talking and the procedure will end.” simply isn’t true or to use your phrase “how the world works”.

The point I was trying to make with Bearden’s comment is that making torture legal is a bad thing because we start using it all the time and we end up torturing “completely and utterly innocent people”. This is a simple fact we’ve done it. People who were guilty of nothing more than being of Middle Eastern decent have been grabbed off the street and tortured because of false information given by someone else being tortured. That does makes us the bad guy it doesn’t matter that we had good intentions, that we thought we were simply defending ourselves we were and are wrong.

As to my convictions, if I knew that someone had information that would protect a loved one I would start at the toes with needle nose pliers and work my way up.

But to paraphrase you “thats not the real world” that’s a movie of the week or a Fox teevee show. Interrogators are trying to get names, telephone numbers, address’, organizational structures. And while that doesn’t take “Smart Diplomacy” it does take smart interrogation not torture.

I know full well there are “REALLY bad people out there”. But from a legal and or moral perspective becoming like them to protect ourselves doesn’t make it “OK”.

“He who fights monsters must take care lest he become a monster. When you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes into you.” – Friedrich Nietzsche

Sandy:

“R.D.’s point that “They can choose to start talking and the procedure will end.” simply isn’t true or to use your phrase “how the world works”.”

Unless they are interrogating the subject for revenge or kicks, that is nonsense. Once a terrorist starts providing good information, the process ends.

“The point I was trying to make with Bearden’s comment is that making torture legal is a bad thing because we start using it all the time and we end up torturing “completely and utterly innocent people”.”

That same logic can be applied to prison sentences but I don’t think we will be dispensing with them any time soon. And before you tell me “torture is worse,” let me tell you unequivocally that I would rather be unjustly waterboarded than unjustly forced to endure a prison term. Give me the choice between a few minutes on the waterboard or a few years (or even months) in prison and I will take the waterboard every time.

In any case, there is a hell of a big chasm between the legal status of an unlawful combatant in a time of war and a citizen being held on criminal charges. It does not follow that waterboarding KSM means we will eventually waterboard the Hamburgler.

“As to my convictions, if I knew that someone had information that would protect a loved one I would start at the toes with needle nose pliers and work my way up.”

Me too. I would do the same thing to save the lives of thousands of my countrymen… even if I didn’t know them personally.

You point to information, which if correct, contradicts my point. In this case, a suspect that was giving up information was subjected to harsh interrogation techniques such as waterboarding when they were later made available to the interrogators.

Obviously the interrogators believe that he was still withholding information or they would not have used the methods they did. In any case, it would appear that they did not have waterboarding available to them during the earlier phase of questioning. Whatever the case may be, in this particular situation, the warterbording came after information was given. I suppose the devil is in the details but a single misapplication or injudicious use of a technique should not be used as a justification to completely prohibit its use.

Terrorists are illegal combatants and, as such, should not during a time of war be given the rights afforded civilians or POWs. There must be severe costs to ignoring the laws of land warfare and terrorists ignore them all. Under the Geneva Convention, those who do not adhere to the the Geneva Convention do not get protected by the Geneva Convention. It must be this way. If there is no penalty to ignoring the rules, more combatants will fail to wear uniforms, use women and children as shields and generally make warfare much more terrible for civilians.

KSM an his ilk are not POWs. POWs have committed no crimes and cannot be given a trial. Illegal combatants can be quickly tried by military tribunals and summarily executed on the battlefield. This is NOTHING like the civilian justice system and it is ridiculous to argue that the treatment of illegal combatants during a time of war will eventually be adopted by civil authorities. In fact, it is farcical.

One more point. Obama is using Predators armed with Hellfire missiles to blow the hell out of houses full of people in Pakistan. It happens every week. I guess we have decided that, if you are suspected of being a terrorist it is okay that the United States, without trial, reduce you to a pink mist on the wind. We have also decided that even though we can kill you, we can’t pour water on your face in the manner used on SERE trainees.

One more thing, I also hold that it does not follow that, because we blow up houses in Pakistan with Hellfire missiles, it does not follow that we will soon be doing the same in Peoria.

JM: “The US didn’t play by the same rules the Nazis and Japanese played by in WWII, and that didn’t stop them from winning.”

Rudolf Hess parachuted into England in 1941. What if waterboarding him would have resulted in the end of the war prior to D-Day and the start of the Final Solution in 1943? Would it have been worth it?

Don’t bother to answer. Of course it would have been worth it. This is purely hypothetical but so is the belief that harsh interrogations do not save the lives of thousands of innocents. The option to go that route should be available to interrogators.

R.D. I don’t think there is more to the story. The CIA says he knows more than he’s saying they torture him and he gives them gems like…”Under duress, Zubaydah told them that shopping malls were targeted by al Qaeda. That information traveled the globe in an instant. Agents from the FBI, Secret Service, Customs, and various related agencies joined local police to surround malls. Zubaydah said banks — yes banks — were a priority. FBI agents led officers in a race to surround and secure banks. And also supermarkets — al Qaeda was planning to blow up crowded supermarkets, several at one time. People would stop shopping. The nation’s economy would be crippled. And the water systems — a target, too. Nuclear plants, naturally. And apartment buildings.”

Guess what… none of it was true.

But that’s what the CIA interrogators wanted to hear. So they jumped all over it spread the word had folks jumping through hoops left and right. But it wasn’t true he didn’t know any more so he was just making stuff up hoping they’d stop torturing him. Once again “Abu Zubaydah gave up perhaps his single most valuable piece of information early, naming Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, whom he knew as Mukhtar, as the main organizer of the 9/11 plot.

A C.I.A. interrogation team that arrived a week or two later, which included former military psychologists, did not change the approach to questioning, but began to keep him awake night and day with blasting rock music, have his clothes removed and keep his cell cold.” He gave up his real piece of juicy info before the torture.

The FBI says he would have given all the real information he had without using the “harsher techniques” the CIA says the harsher techniques were needed even though he was being “compliant”. They torture him they end up running around in circles like chickens with their heads cut off because of the false info he gives them.

Anybody remember Curveball? I think I’ll stick with the info gathered by he FBI because if Curveball is any indication as to CIA intelligence gathering……

And I’m not sure that your comparison of bombings is fair one. Unless of course there’s a foreign city named Peoria somewhere I don’t know about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/world/middleeast/18zubaydah.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=zubaydah%20fbi%20cia&st=cse

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/28/AR2009032802066.html

http://busharchive.froomkin.com/BL2007120701201_pf.htm

Harsh interrogation works. Even the FBI stressed the hell out of him by keeping him naked in an icy cell, deprived him of sleep and blasted rock music at him. Let me tell you, I found sleep deprivation to be far worse than waterboarding.

In any case, these harsh interrogation methods work. The FBI harshly interrogated Zubaydah and the CIA, evidently, upped the ante. If they would have treated Zubaydah like an honored guest they would have gotten nothing from him. What they did get saved lives.

These interrogation techniques work. They will work again. They save lives. They are no more harsh than what SERE trainees experience.

As for the FBI, do you really find it shocking that in this political environment they are running from any accusation of “torture?”

We kill suspected terrorists, with Obama’s approval, just about weekly. No trial. No proof. Just a tip and we launch a Hellfire at them. If we can kill them at will, we can certainly pour water on their faces.

You said if we treat terrorists badly, it will lead to treating US citizens badly. My point was that there is no reason to believe that “torturing” terrorists will lead to “torturing” US civilians than there is to believe that killing terrorists with Hellfire missiles will lead to killing US civilians with Hellfire missiles.

I am no longer interested in discussing the anecdotal Zubaydah situation. He was interrogated harshly from the moment he was captured and he spilled his guts. Enough said.

Damn Olby! Call me. I will take this deal.

Olby to Hannity: I’ll give you $1,000 per second to be waterboarded

For the record, I acknowledged in my post that the same treatment received by military trainees applied to terrorists would be much more traumatic and stressful. My point was twofold: 1) If guys like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad received the same treatment as SERE trainees, it is hard to argue that it is physical torture. Physically it is the same. You can, however, argue that it is psychologically more stressful for the terrorists. But, having said that, if we are unwilling to even subject terrorists to stress, we are going to find it very difficult to gather the intelligence needed to protect this nation.

I wasn’t trying to act tough in this. During much of the intense training I underwent there were times when I fervently wished I would not have volunteered for it and would loved to have had a time machine to “un-volunteer.” My point was that the threat of profound humiliation made me drive on even when, in my heart, I wanted to quit. That isn’t toughness, that is pride. Maybe foolish pride; I don’t know. Ultimately I wanted to convey that it over-simplifies the situation to simply state “trainees can quit anytime they want to.” It is more complicated than that.

John….how did we win in WWII….do you know?…..it wasnt because of negotiations or ground fighting….at least not Japan…..IT WAS BRUTE FORCE! Bleeding hearts will not only bankrupt this country but lead us to ruin….its time for April Morning again!

Just a bit more. This from William Manchester in his memoir Goodbye, Darkness…

“I understand at last why I jumped hospital that Sunday thirty-five years ago, and in violation of orders returned to the front lines and almost certain death. It was an act of love, those men on the line were my family, my home. They were closer to me than I can say, closer than any friend who had been or ever would be. They had never let me down, and I couldn’t do it to them. I had to be with them rather than let them die and me live with the knowledge that I might have saved them. Men, I now knew, do not fight for flag or country, for the Marine Corps or glory or any other abstraction, they fight for one another. Any man in combat who lacks comrades who will die for him, or for whom he is willing to die, is not a man at all, he is truly damned.”

Innocent people die in wars. We are all innocent for we are all God’s “children”. If you, Sandy, had children of your own and had to choose betw them and other, you would choose your own. That is Nature. Try getting around that!

I personally want my kids to be tough- the kind of tough that allows one to see the truth thru the hardship (i.e. SERE training)- not the kind of tough that allows them to deny the truth due to the hardship (i.e. re-education by being Forced to stone someone to Death)

I went thru and read everyone’s comment. I went thru SERE training and I served in Iraq. I have no respect for any terrorist. I also will say this: If I knew a terrorist had information about a WMD (Weapon of Mass Destruction). I would use any method up to and including torture even to the point of cutting certain body parts off on the premise that I will pay for my actions after saving up to maybe tens of thousands of lives, because to me the needs of the many at least in this instance outweighs the needs of the one!

and one more thing i would die for all of you posting before i gave you all up jsut to save my ass and not many peopel will say that for peopel they dont know not a damn bit
i would rather die then give my brothers sisters mothers and fathers away

Yes Dec and Violence solves more of the worlds problems than any other method employed. It is best to be a Master of it and hope to never have to use it than to remain ignorant and a victim waiting to happen.

I have 28 years of experience as an Army interrogator. I am one of the most experienced and successful interrogators in the U.S. Army. My team took down more bad guys in Iraq than any other collection team. I have never developed, participated in, or evaluated any U.S. interrogation training or operation in which mistreatment or abuse of any kind was tolerated. I have played the source in Kiwi, Brit and Australian exercises that involved mistreatment, but never U.S.
A Soldier who violates U.S. laws and regulations concerning the treatment of sources during training or operations is kicked out of the MOS for life. It is against all I believe in and have taught and been taught to mistreat detainees. I am very good at what I do and I don’t need to mistreat detainees. You people have no right to ask me, the person who must actually do the job, to dishonor myself and country and mistreat detainees. I don’t need your help. I am very good at what I do, and I don’t need your “support” in the form of sanctioning the violation of the U.S. Army’s code of conduct in relation to the treatment of detainees. Your moral relativism is not a part of the proud tradition of interrogators in the U.S. Army.

With all due respect to Afghan Chief’s pristine record of 28 yrs of interrogation, no one has asked you to mistreat detainees. I don’t know what “type” of detainee you were interrogating, but I believe there are different levels. The level at which you were dealing is one completely different than when dealing with those who would create indiscriminate destruction.

As for moral relativism, you might have a point, except for the fact that moral values is not a language spoken by terrorists. Indeed, the language they speak is Terror. They cause terror not just for the world, but for their own people who are not of the same extreme mind. Now how’s THAT for moral relativism?

As for Dec’s comment of “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” Terrorists are NOT fighting for freedom. They are fighting for domination. I have yet to hear declaration for freedom by terrorists. Their message and mission? Destroy the Infidel.

Unfortunately, the term “infidel” is one of fluid definition. It can be anyone, any nationality, as long as it fits the need of the terrorist of the moment.

Daniel Pearl’s crime? A double infidel. He was not only American, but he was also Jewish. All grounds for torture and gruesome prolonged death. You want to talk moral relativism? Had he been an Afghan, perhaps he might have been allowed a quicker death or perhaps, they would’ve just removed a limb or two.

All this talk about humane treatment is a moot point when dealing with extremists. You are sorely mistaken and misguided to be seeing terrorists through the eyes of American/Western culture, Obama included.

Had you grown up in Afghan and watched the deterioration of your country torn apart by warlords and Al-qaeda acting upon supposed religious sentiments, you would have a different view. Not that you would have to act as animalistic as they, but you would understand there is a language that must be spoken, if you are to survive.

“Nice” is not included in the verbage of terrorists. If you are still having a difficult time understanding what I am saying, think mafia/mobsters. Do you think saying “please” would keep you from being killed if a gangster has you fingered as being the cause of all his troubles?

Saying “please, stop” to the bully on the playground didn’t keep my little second grade student from getting her foot stomped on until it bled. She kept asking nicely…just like I taught my class to do. That boy didn’t understand “nice.” That boy only understood he needed to stop AFTER I took drastic measures…and AFTER the little girl’s father called the police. And even then, he only changed his tactics so it would not be as noticeable. Bullies/terrorists do not understand “nice.”

To those who persist in arguing why we should not use techniques which get answers, no one can change your mind unless one day you have a loved one kidnapped, tortured, and given a prolonged and painful death simply for being an “infidel.” -Of course, the definition of “infidel” would depend on your captors especially if they happen to be having a “bad day” or you happen to be the “wrong” nationality.

Desist in this chatter on what is “morally” right in getting information. You are operating from a naive Westernized cultural point of view. Please, save your “morality” for the neighborhood and support education instead of complaining. You don’t like it? Then go join Al-Qaeda and then you’ll understand that their brand of “justice” is not about freedom and human rights. They commit atrocities against their own people as well…it is about power and might…and the fluid use of the term “infidel.”

Send a postcard, would ya?

StuffedMango
John McGuinness

First off, I wholeheartedly agree with you stuffedmango. Especially concerning our reaction to that of the terrorist. We may respond the same way as the terrorist, but not with the same intentions. We react to end they’re actions, whereas they act to fulfill what they consider to be a duty or responsibility.

“Van-a-gram,

The US didn’t play by the same rules the Nazis and Japanese played by in WWII, and that didn’t stop them from winning.

I am unwilling to have terrorists set the rules for our behavior.”
-John McGuinness

Oh John, as for the U.S., Nazi Germany, and the Japanese, research “Manzanar” and than tell me we didnt implement the same tactics that Nazi Germany and the Japanese utilized during WWII. The difference is the end result; we did it to cut-off any communications between Japanese-Americans and the Japanese and those that could have leaked information. And in the end result we wanted to end the war. The Nazi’s and Japanese did it to exterminate and end an entire race because they felt that they were superior! SAME TECHNIQUE’S USED, BUT DIFFERENT END RESULTS BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT END GOALS. Sometimes we have to kick that “Bully” in the shin and beat his ass, not to make him suffer like he was wanting us to suffer, but to let him know that if you mess with me again I’m gonna kick your ass! SAME TECHNIQUE USED, BUT DIFFERENT END RESULTS BECAUSE OF DIFFERENT END GOALS.

Is someone interested in an original survivalknife from Col. James N. Rowe?
I will send pictures and give mor informations by e-mail.
juergen.franzen@gmx.ch

This guy is full of shit

# 1. Know what and who you are talking about. date of Col Rowes assassination – WRONG.
# 2. When Col Rowe escaped, he was noot on a work detail. He was being taken to district hqs to be executed for lying to the V telling them he was an engineer.
# 3. He did not kill his guard. He incapcitated him.
Nothing wrong with lying, just make sure it does not catch up with you. feel free to email me asshole at dadams7491@aol.com

Well fuck you too Elmer. For those of you that want to know what has Elmer’s panties twisted up his ass it is this..

1) Yep, my memory was wrong, Colonel Rowe was assasintated in April 1989. Not February 1989 as I incorrectly recalled. I was two months off.

2) Work detail or not, Rowe was out of camp when he beat his guard down and was rescued by American helicopters.

3) Okay, so he didn’t kill him, he incapacitated him.

I was going on memory over 25 years old. Sorry for not double checking the minutia.

I graduated the John F. Kennedy’s Special Warfare Center’s SERE Instructor School in the first week of October, 1984.

If you are accusing me of being one of these stolen valor pukes who lies about his military experience, you can kiss my ass. I was there. I earned the designation SERE Instructor and I have a certificate, a DD214 and friends who can confirm it.

You said: “Nothing wrong with lying, just make sure it does not catch up with you. feel free to email me asshole.”

So you came to my blog, accused me of lying about my military record, called me an asshole and are now pretending like all you did was claim my dates were wrong. Fuck you.

Ok RD
# 1. I did not come up with the Fuck you. I said you wer efull of shit cause your dates are not correct and your info is wrong
#2. my panties were not in a wad but it damn sure appears yours are.
# 3. I did not stoop to the status of calling you a pussy because you were wrong, as you have admitted due to poor memory. I only said you were full of shit! and I will restate my original comment, if I have to, now that you want to make it personal
Further more, I could give a F—when you graduated from SERE School.
Also let me reiterate. I did not accuse you of anything. I only said “you were full of shit” bsased on things you said and that you have confirmed yourself. additionally I’d like to ask you a question, What is the SERE Instructor designation? Is that an MOS within it self or is it a skill identifier?

What has a server got to do with it and what does that have to do with credability. Arte you saying all people from Raeford are not credible?
?

Whats the skill identifier. you have got my curiosity up??

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar350-30.pdf

b. Level B instructors. Commanders should attempt to retain a qualified level B instructor at the battalion or separate company level to conduct the level B instruction. Pending formalization of an additional skill identifier for the SERE instructor, the following can be used for instructor support:
(1) The SERE Instructor Qualification Course conducted at the USAJFKSWC is designed to qualify instructors to teach level B training in all environments.
(2) In addition, the USAJFKSWC can provide the level B Instructor Qualification Course to remote sites with mobile training teams (MTTs).

Are you delusional?

http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=7217&cpage=2#comment-24378

You wrote this:

Nothing wrong with lying, just make sure it does not catch up with you. feel free to email me asshole at dadams7491@aol.com

Based on the question he asked about an MOS skill identifier, I imagined that he might be a bit closer to the real deal than ODA231 was earlier today on that other thread

” The mock prison camp is designed to provide the most realistic conditions possible. “Is the guy going to be under stress in captivity? You’re dang straight, he is,” says survival school instructor Elmer Adams, a former Green Beret who fought in Vietnam. “So, we’re going to put him under stress here to prepare him for that, just in case he gets scarfed up.”

http://www.training.sfahq.com/survival_training.htm

Well, you can’t expect an old Soldier from the day of Nick Rowe to NOT get edgy about his history. He just wanted you to have your paperwork straight. You know how we are about our history.

Yes, he’s an old Soldier. How many old Soldiers do you know that don’t know exactly how to be an asshole exactly when he wants to? It’s all good. Let him back in.

I’ll bet he knows Bud O’Donnell.

Amen to that last one brother. I know exactly how to be an asshole if I need to.

Walker, you were an instructor? I did not realize that from your story. I myself believe (and don’t quote me on this one, my military experience was a minor blip on the radar nearly 10 years ago and seems like another life) I was in a level-C class. Those were the days of the transition from the old Army that I know and love to the kinder gentler Army we have today. Apparently from what I have heard from “old” soldiers and new ones, I gather that when I was in just after the Gulf vol. 1, they were doing lots of strange experimentation with MOS’s and things like that. We even had this little card that we could give instructors who were giving us a hard time so we could get a 15 minute break. I also understand that my MOS as it was does not exist anymore, has been changed and the duty levels altered since the issue of my DD214.

Okay, I will open it back up.

If you return Mr. Adams, the site wasn’t down, you were just blocked. Play nice.

Wow……… first line, “I was a SERE instructor”. I must be getting old.

Oh yeah, and the “stolen valor” thing. Thay don’t fuck around with that anymore, they actually will prosecute guys who claim to have fought, or won commendations and it’s not true.

“The Stolen Valor Act of 2005 (the Act), signed into law by President George W. Bush on December 20, 2006,[1] is a U.S. law that broadens the provisions of previous U.S. law addressing the unauthorized wear, manufacture, sale or claim (either written or oral) of any military decorations and medals. It is a federal misdemeanor offense, which carries a punishment of imprisonment for not more than 1 year and/or a fine; the scope previously covered only the Medal of Honor.” – from Wikipedia

THATS IT! Stress cards….. like I said a blip on the radar. All I remember is the training, I had no combat so the rest is a blur of free ammo, garrison patrols, field drills, and skin bars in Killen TX.

And for about 2 years, I gave half of my damn pay to this stripper who lived in Copperas Cove named Robin Renee Wall. Great body, real pretty…….. reminds me of a pit viper in Jessica Simpson’s (from the Dukes movie, not the fat one) skin. Oh well.

I know ton’s of guys who remember every damn thing about every damn thing in the military… sadly I am not one. But I will never forget some instructor putting boot to ass in basic, AIT, jump school etc.

But Uncle sam has seen fit to continue employing me so I must not be too much of a shit-bird.

The only place I got to train in Texas was way out in the boonies of Fort Bliss. There is a largely forgotten place called Oro Grande where you can do some climbing. I loved being out in the most desolate place we could find out in the desert. I got to see a lot of the White Sands Missile Range from behind an M-60 on a Gun Jeep. The thing I enjoyed most about the desert was being WAY away from everybody on a 3-man Team. The desert is a lot of fun. It’s too bad that I didn’t get to spend more time there.

Juarez, Mexico was a lot of fun too. I damn sure know that I wouldn’t try any of shit I used to do back in the day, down there today. I had a little incident on the border back then (more thaan one actually) that probably wouldn’t have gone as well today.

I apologize for being so defensive. I have made a footnoted correction in the above post.

Hey MadBrad, thank you. Just out of curiosity, do you know me???

I don’t know you, just found you out there on the net when your manner was such that I correctly assumed that there would be something to find. Then I looked at when you served and wondered if maybe we knew some of the same folks. I had a good friend from back home who was in 5th Group when I was at Bragg. He married into a military family of the Special Forces community. I got to know them and many of their neighbors who were retired SF Troopers.

There’s a legendary Irishman who still lives in Fayetteville, who has legendary parties at the legendary bar inside his house. I got to enjoy his company quite frequently years ago. It seems like everybody has had a beer with this guy, which is why I wondered if you know Bud O’Donnell.

Wow, a bunch of ass in the grass SF community folks on here. Imagine that. I’m glad to know you, or your online pseudonyms anyhow.

MadBrad, If I have not offended you, e-mail me sometime. Calicojack, Same to you. May God Bless the bothof you. And RD God bless you 2
Dave

Damn, no responses.

If you were there when I was there and your memory is good, I can tell you a detail that I could only know if I was there. One night, as a hurricane approached the NC coast, we were pulled from our field exercise at Big Muddy and moved to barracks on Bragg to ride out the storm. The storm was a bust and we were returned to MacKall the next day.

Also, the officer who I will be seeing retire this summer and who is the godfather of my oldest son was the course XO in 1984.

farewell calico. have a nice day GBU

He is still in and deep in the compound so I don’t want to list his name. He was a CW2 at the time.

Your email kicks back my emails. I get a “not accepting” response.

Email me: rdwalker@therealrevo.com

I’ve got one at your inbox now. I’ve enjoyed your time here. As for certificates, I don’t even know where my Honorable Discharge is right now and who cares?

Here’s just ONE of my notorious friends from ODA-555 back in the day. Often times just the mention of his name causes laughter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Idema

BTW same for me. I have no idea where my military papers are, in a inter department memo envelope somewhere. Fuck it, I never ask for special treatment anyway, and that’s about all they’re good for now. The training matters.

The thing about Maracek is wierd too. Sentenced to 30 for a second degree murder in ’01 and parolled in ’03. WTF

That map is neatly rolled up and within my sight at this very moment. Walls must be refinished in the command bunker before I will get it properly displayed. I would still have lots of stuff from the day, but my unfortunate encounter with Federal Authorities caused many of my belongings to be scattered to the four winds by an angry, soon-to-be ex-wife.

I haven’t seen Keith Idema since 1987. I was out of the Army and he was running a Paintball place just outside of Fayatteville, NC. I have only heard stories since then.

Roger that.

I’m a Reagan era vet, of the US, Navy, was attached to com sub 6 out of charleston south carolina, well the boat was @ the weapons station in Kingsbay Georgia.. Anyway.. All I wanted to say was that I thank you all for your service to this nation and think that things just seem to get messed up the more polititions try to run the war.
What I dont understand is why everyone seems to feel the need to e defend what they did or the fact that they were in the service at all. who cares, If they are so weak they have to lie about their service they are not worth the time it takes to type to them. Carry on gents and do whatever it takes to win, Most of all come home safe.. you are loved and appreciated in this household.. thanks again. sorry for my typing and spelling they always were bad.. tc

“If you are accusing me of being one of these stolen valor pukes who lies about his military experience, you can kiss my ass. I was there. I earned the designation SERE Instructor and I have a certificate, a DD214 and friends who can confirm it.”

If you want to look at a POS that claims all sorts of military experience, look up Richard Comerford. Haunts a site called Catholic and Enjoying it. Claims to know everything about interrogation. Is fucked up.

The blog is here:

http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/

Matt, Your ‘mythical situation’ has indeed happened. The “Torture” of making the prisoner think he was about to die had an immediate effect of causing the jihadi police officer to spill the beans and save American lives. See it here:

http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=24762

For the record, I am in favor of the targeted killing of radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. I wouldn’t object to pouring a bucket of water on his face either. For most people, the decision to kill a man is a higher hurdle to jump than the decision to pour water on his face. Of course nobody ever accused a liberal of being logical.

If any of these drive-bys had any information that I wanted out of them, I wouldn’t use waterboarding.