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Bannon talks the Faith

And now for an opposing argument...

1 Peter 4:9 "Be hospitable to one another without complaint."

Leviticus 19:33-34 'When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 'The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

Matthew 9:10 Then it happened that as Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples.

Matthew 25:35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;

Hebrews 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Isaiah 58:7 "Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry And bring the homeless poor into the house; When you see the naked, to cover him; And not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Genesis 24:31 And he said, "Come in, blessed of the LORD! Why do you stand outside since I have prepared the house, and a place for the camels?"

Judges 19:20 The old man said, "Peace to you. Only let me take care of all your needs; however, do not spend the night in the open square."

Job 31:32 "The alien has not lodged outside, For I have opened my doors to the traveler.

Acts 28:2 The natives showed us extraordinary kindness; for because of the rain that had set in and because of the cold, they kindled a fire and received us all.

I am not making a political statement here.  I am making a religious one.  Bannon is assuming that Catholic Bishops have a financial motive for hospitality when Christ and the scriptures have commanded them to be hospitable.

That they are simply promoting that fundamental precepts of their faith is all the cause required to explain their opposition to ending DACA. Occum, therefore, says Bannon is full of shit.

The churches all over  the border towns have always given refuge to illegals, shelter, food, water, etc.  It's always been that way.   Humanitarianly it's the only correct decision to make.

Quote from Bman on September 7, 2017, 9:04 am

The churches all over  the border towns have always given refuge to illegals, shelter, food, water, etc.  It's always been that way.   Humanitarianly it's the only correct decision to make.

Exactly.  Whether that is stupid from a secular standpoint is open to debate.  From a Christian standpoint, however, it is mandatory.  Christ was quite clear on this.

In fact, it was the churches who put out water stations all over the dessert specifically for the illegals.

I don’t think it’s so clear cut from a religious or financial point.

Christians must be both merciful and just. Christians are commanded, with very few exceptions, to follow the law.  Mercy requires treating illegals with compassion but, a deportation can be carried out with compassion. The catholic church is going beyond mercy by encouraging and enabling illegal immigration. It's not just that some laws apply to some people and not others.

Financially the bishops have a huge conflict of interest. The church is in the refugee resettlement and immigrant social services and charity businesses. Hundreds of millions of dollars in federal aid money are funneled through Catholic Charities, USCCB, and CRS. It’s not about the tithes. It about growing the church’s charity infrastructure and staff. Nonprofits like money, growth, and power as much as for profits. Even good work get's corrupted by money.  They want charity clients.

Galatians 5:14

14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

I can think of ten thousand reasons to disobey man's laws and no reason to disobey God's.

I never cease to be amazed at how a couple years ago we talked about man's law by saying things like "they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hands" but now that Trump is in the White House we must obey man's law even if it flies in the face of the Gospel.

Perhaps I'm not understanding your postion. Are you suggesting the gospel encourages mandates borders policy?

I am saying the gospel mandates hospitality and love for your neighbor. I am not saying that it calls for an open border.  Churches are going to help those in need. The Catholic church is going to do this because that is its nature.  There is no need for Bannon to come up with a conspiracy to explain church actions.

He is saying that once here they should have charity. I agree but it should be charity and not just government funds funneled through a nonprofit.

Bannon is more right than wrong.  Catholic Relief Services gets 2/3 of its funding directly from the government. Over the past nine years, the USCCB has received a total of $534,788,660 in taxpayer dollars.  Catholic charities are financially dependent on federal funding.  The cardinals and bishops see Trump's proposed immigration and border polices as a threat to their funding.  They're acting like any other NGO.  Follow the money.

 

Bannon is more wrong that right.  Christians extend grace and hospitality because Christ requires it.

If they happen to get funding for doing what the Faith inspires, great. The funding, however, is a side effect of the grace and hospitality that is required of Christians, not the reason for it.

They get the funding because they are acting as a NGO providing a government services masked as charity. It can’t properly be called “catholic” when the bulk of the funding comes from the government. It’s simply a backdoor way to give illegals welfare and a legacy of Obama’s immigration policy. It's exactly what Ben describes.

Again, showing mercy, hospitality and grace are Christian acts.  Period.

Yep. Catholic charities and others are doing the right thing. The government providing back door welfare via charity is what is wrong.

You guys willfully misunderstand catholic charities and USCBC.  These organizations, by the own proud admission, are dedicated to social justice.  They operate of government grants.  They are partners of the welfare state. Remember when Rick Santorum got sideways with CC in the late 90’s over welfare reform? 90 seconds on the internet would confirm what I'm telling you.

It’s entirely hilarious to watch you “libertarian conservatives” defend the welfare state and progressive Christian social justice teaching.

Bannon really gets you in a state.  .

So you are saying the Christian thing to do it let people die in the desert?

False choice. They can be cared for, shown mercy, and promptly deported. Given them amnesty is not a Christian obligation. How is it that you see things in the Bible that our ancestors never saw? Did previous generations of American Christians ever imagine that God wanted us to open our borders and wallets to illegal immigrants in the name of kindness or grace? If these teachings are found in the Bible, why did previously generations limit immigration?

The Catholics are following money and power.  As they always have throughout history.  Why would things be different now? The Bishops got behind Obama’s policy of encouraging trainloads of unaccompanied central American minors to embark on a dangerous journey through Mexico because he who pays the piper calls the tune. These bishops are heaping burdens on us all - exploited 'migrants' included.  The taxpayer is footing the bill, not to mention the social costs. Now you want to give the moral high ground? No way. They are complicit is making the problem.  They want total open borders.

Stop falling for the leftist Christian ruse of conflating travelers and strangers outside of their homelands with immigrants. The two things are different.

 

Quote from Squib Load on September 14, 2017, 3:32 pm

Given them amnesty is not a Christian obligation.

The Church isn't giving them amnesty.  The church is offering them hospitality.

How is it that you see things in the Bible that our ancestors never saw?

The Church is in a constant state of reformation starting with the Reformation.

Did previous generations of American Christians ever imagine that God wanted us to open our borders and wallets to illegal immigrants in the name of kindness or grace?

They have always required hospitality and grace for strangers in need.  This has been the case for two thousand years.

The Catholics are following money and power.
 

Irrelevant.  Hospitality, generosity and grace are absolutely at the foundation of the Christian faith.  Christ was quite clear on this.

As they always have throughout history.  Why would things be different now? The Bishops got behind Obama’s policy of encouraging trainloads of unaccompanied central American minors to embark on a dangerous journey through Mexico because he who pays the piper calls the tune. These bishops are heaping burdens on us all - exploited 'migrants' included.  The taxpayer is footing the bill, not to mention the social costs. Now you want to give the moral high ground? No way. They are complicit is making the problem.  They want total open borders.

We are all sinners in every thought, word and deed but good works are a reaction to God's Grace.

Stop falling for the leftist Christian ruse of conflating travelers and strangers outside of their homelands with immigrants. The two things are different.

 

Hospitality and grace are not leftist in nature.  They are Christian in nature.

Leviticus 19:33-34 'When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 'The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

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1 Timothy 5:10 having a reputation for good works; and if she has brought up children, if she has shown hospitality to strangers, if she has washed the saints' feet, if she has assisted those in distress, and if she has devoted herself to every good work.

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Hebrews 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.
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Revelation 3:20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
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Matthew 25:41-45 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me. Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'

Squib. Catholic charities isn't giving anyone amnesty. They do not control our border policy. All they are doing is helping those in need who are here regardless of why or where they came from.

 

To be honest I have always found Presbyterians to be the ones obsessed with money.

I have never heard a catholic homily about giving more to the church. I have heard plenty of Protestant renditions of the money drive.

Hell they changed the our father to forgiving debts instead of trespasses.

“Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.” ~George Santayana
“Those who remember the past are condemned to watch as everyone else repeats it.” ~RD Walker

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